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Jascha
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PostSubject: Development of the game   Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:21 pm

this is for idea's about developing the game. i think we are trying very hard and blowfish is coming arround with there setup for the coming months in process but that only helps people that we in direct contact with. we need to think bolder and more out the box on getting word out that conmpetitive yugioh is alive in south aftrica.

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Darksoul
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:28 pm

There are people out there who would like to play and just getting the word out is one thing but getting them involved is another. As we have already discussed in the other topics, new guys that come to the Y.C firstly get pleasantly surprised and shocked to see how many other duelists there are, especially if they come on a major tournament day. But this quickly changes once they realize how good the other duelists really are, how inferior their cards may be and how many complicated rulings there are in yugioh. All these factors quickly change their mindset about the game and they end up giving up hope before they really get started. That's what I pick up from a lot of them when I talk to any new guys (but for some reason they always think I'm new as well No ).
So anyway, I was thinking about changing the types of tournaments every once in a while. Instead of having the standard tournaments, Jascha and Tyrone could change it to something that could be more beneficial toward the newer duelists. Just like how we have sneak peeks, we should have a tournament where everyone must buy a specific structure/starter deck and only use that deck in the tournament. That way; rookies, amateurs and veterans alike each have an equal footing and the victor will be solely determined by skill and tactical abilities alone. This should get the new duelists excited about the game especially if they manage to win something, and give us; the pro's, a chance to increase our skill and tactics by playing decks we normally wouldn't. Well Jascha, Guys, thats my idea, what do you think?
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Jascha
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:17 pm

i like the idea. we do have some complications with implementing it though.

1. the money factor. that would mean that a player needs to spend R150+ to enter that torn. the decks could def be reused for future torns such as it but how do we get decks for the less fortunate players or even the ones that dont want to buy that deck.

2. the winner will still be one of the regulars as we generally are more experienced, can string together plays easier, and a greater knowledge of rulings.

I do think your on to something though. having a standardized deck or format of decks may help. Its the rare and expensive cards that us regulars have is what gives us and enormous edge over the rookies. Maybe a novice local banlist would help. removing all the higher end powerful cards to standardize but also allowing players to still build there own structured decks. But this needs to be a consensus. every regular needs to come to the table on input as to what should be on this banlist/limit list.

I still think this has loop holes though. the best way forward i think is to have seporated torns. ones for novice and ones fully competitive but unfortunetly we just dont have enaf players to do this.

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Yudheer
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:14 pm

My idea is firstly , we need to get all the current duelists together ( especially the ones who don't seem to enjoy pitching up ) and have a meeting with them. I don't think they understand that what they are doing is detrimental to the game. This lack off attending events is increasing a lot here in Durban and I'm starting to get pissed off, what's really ticking me off is that the guys that work, have "REAL" commitments, are married, have school , campus ,etc are the people attending while the others are still sitting and waiting for the next "Nationals Season" to start. Calling on all the current duelists is the best way to regain our player base, so that when new guys come they are attracted to the big time feel of things. Dark souls deck idea is not the right way to go, that doesn't help the new guys learn anything about the game/ meta and will put place them in trouble when its big tournament time. I think after we get our numbers back we should Ban certain players from taking part in our local tournys , have a seperate thing for the vets on the side while focusing on letting the lesser experienced players kill each other to let them learn. My opinions here are just for Durbans scene as i don't know whats going on in the other parts of SA and in addition to increasing/regaining our players we also need to increase traffic here on the site, i see a lot of guest users online sometimes more than registered users and i'd like to know why you guys won't sign in and contribute.

An additional option, though we are powerless over this one, is to have 2 Major tournaments in SA a year. One for the first six months and the second for the next, this would keep players interested all throughout the year and actually give SA duelists something to do each year with the September ban list.
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Darksoul
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:48 pm

Banning certain players? That seems a bit harsh, but yet we do need to come down hard on some people. And maybe you guys are right about the 2 tournaments thing. We should have a competitive tournament for us and our own 'Dragon Duel' tournament where the only criteria needed to enter is lack of experience. Once the upcoming duelists VS each other over time, learn different techniques, strategies, and learn more about the game while gaining a high amount of experience from our Dragon Duel setup, they can progress to the competitive tournament. But then again this stills relies on getting plenty of new duelists to join.
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:12 pm

I really like the 2 tournaments a year idea. Especially a big one like a type of YCS so that we'd have Regionals, Nationals and YCS equivalent. And 2 seperate local events, one for beginners and one for elite players. Otherwise it's boring duels and free wins for experienced guys and defeats for beginners. Though how would you determine who plays in which? I mean I've only been playing IRL for maybe 3 solid months and I've only bought 2 types of structure decks, but I would play in the experienced events. So it would maybe be based judging on player ability.

I also agree with Yudheer. There already is this big player base, more than half of which sits dormant. We could easily double turn-outs if people just took a few hours on a weekend to play. Trying to get new players involved and then they rock up to a local and there's only 5 guys is just sad, especially when 15-20+ could have easily have made it there.

A big attraction to IRL play and competitive format is that grand event, things like Nationals. The more players that show up the more new-comers there'd be and the bigger and more appealing the competitive scene would be in SA. This is why I like the idea of having another regular big event, either annually or every 3 months, who knows. But it would certainly entice the players who sit and wait for the next Nationals to show up to be more frequent and have more incentive to join in.

I must say though, regarding new players money is a big issue as well as where to even buy. It's very hard to start this game with it having become as expensive as it has. Sure a beginner could buy some structures and modify them a bit and run with that till they acquire more cards, but for it to even have a flying chance in hell against other owes is if they have experience enough to modify the deck effectively, and if they have the know-how to really make all the starting cards work for them. Having a beginners and a separate competitive event would solve this though so thumbs up for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:50 am

You guys are brilliant! Haha. Look, even here in Cape Town our player base is slowly decreasing, even in this year alone. We used to have like 25-30 man tournaments, but nowadays, we only have about 20 depending on the situation. This is obviously not due to them not having time, as this also happens during the holiday(s).

A few ideas I disagree on:

The idea with the structure decks placing everyone at a "fair" playing field. This is not true as there will always be a barrier between someone who is just downright better than you and someone who isn't. A good example is with the reprints of cards such as: Archlord Kristya, Pot of Duality and at a later stage, Solemn Warning. Now I have first-hand experience at an inexperienced duelist picking-up an Agent deck with it fully packed, and still not doing as great as you would think, or still making a "non-optimal" play. It's also not the type of deck which they have, as I have given many duelists decks to play with and can see an immediate change in how we play and why a few players do better than others with the EXACT same deck. Sure, luck will always play a factor, but you cannot blame it all the time. Sometimes you have to admit that you played badly. Take a simple thought-of "luck" deck like Lightsworn and give it to a novice player. Sure, in the first few weeks he/she will be playing it terribly, but it's still possible that over time it's still not working for them, and this is where another factor comes in: testing. There are thousands of players out there who can just not play a certain deck, EVER. It's not their play-style and they always do badly with it. The main point(s) that I'm trying to make is that it's NEVER just what kind of deck or cards you have, but it's how your head understands them.

The two separate tournaments. This is solely based-on the fact that Yu-Gi-Oh! has an integral part in including players whether or not they are novice or expert, because, I mean, how do you learn without playing in the "big league?" You don't. Novice against novice is all about winning and not taking any experience from the game itself. Actually, "pro" players still do that and do not want to see the side of losing, or at least admit that their skill level was lower than another player's. It's this very reason we don't have enough players: we have skilled players who do not want to teach the novice players about the game and disregarding them completely.

This leads in to my next point: the solution! This is going to sound rather over ambitious...but it's all about TEACHING. EDUCATION is how you defeat problems. Know that saying: "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man how to fish and he eats forever." It goes something like that. That's what we are lacking to introducing to the novice players: a few lessons here and there on skill and how to play the game, teaching them how to think out of the box to make better plays, optimizing their skill and their ability to think during a game.

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dragonite
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:50 am

The way I see it there are many problems with the game in South Africa at the moment but they can be boiled down to:
1. Product Availability
2. Game Marketing
3. Player Base
4. Competitive Scene
5. Judges & Tournament Organisers

1. Product Availibility
There is often the discussion of an inequality in obtaining cards in the game because of the rarity of cards within sets but it seems that over much of the country people don't have access to Core sets on release. We in Cape Town don't suffer from this problem although we do pay in costs because our product is about 20% more expensive. This problem is entirely due to Blowfish although it'd probably come back to the player base not buying. The best thing I can see is that people bombard them with requests for newer stock.

And the important point is to support your stores. I have found that many players would prefer to purchase singles online but without the support of the local card shop there won't be anywhere to play. I'm not saying that everyone should go out and buy stuff but think twice before disregarding the store.

2. Game Marketing
Again, this should be the responsibility of BFE but it is something that the player base can take to heart and work on. If each player base tried to share the info on their game they would slowly expand. Obviously because we don't have the range it won't have the greatest penetration but getting info out there would be great. I definitely feel that BFE always seem to slack on this and maybe it should be a sticking point in negotiation.

3. Player Base
From what I hear the other regions are suffering different problems to us. The retention of the established player base. I can sypmathise with those who have become disheartened by the game and decide to withdraw from it. A problem with that is that it makes it very difficult to return because the game moves very quickly. We don't notice from inside as much. Ways to do this are to improve the competitive scene and make playing the game more fun.

We here in CT suffer the opposite. While I have worked very hard at keeping players attending, we have a very low rate of new membership. People come, don't want to enter tournament and get left on the wayside. To relate to finance, you can't measure fun so you use a proxy. I have chosen prize support to cost as that. As it turns out this is not the ideal measure for all. I have tried to do new player things with little success. The divide between players starting and those vets is slowly decreasing with the re-release of much desired cards and the increased power of structure decks but players often don't know how best to spend their money and do so before consulting experienced players.

4. Competitive scene
Again this needs to be addressed by BFE and although they started some feelers into it they never got back on what they intended. The Sneak Peeks are a great fun thing to do but they are still a bit steep and therefore inaccessible to many. Something I have heard from the up-and-coming Pokemon people is that they receive great benefits to organise things themselves.

I have done this. For new product we have obscene giveaways by "donating" product to the prize pool. We have tournaments where the entry gets you a booster for less than it would normally cost and the chance to win more. With varying levels of success we have managed to keep players entertained.

I have class now but what do I suggest going forward?
Consolidate. First ensure that what you have you will keep and then look at expanding. I think we need to find out why people don't want to attend our respective events and then look to address them. Only once we know what the problem is can we fix it. Then look at improving the scene. Do this by having cool events and making new players feel welcome and enjoying events. The benefit we have is that what is a problem for some regions is a strength for others which can help overcome the problem more easily.

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Yudheer
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:05 am

All logical responses but with the Durban people at the next big event, most prob PHSW sneak, i want to have a meeting with EVERYONE and we shall start from there , if we start getting our numbers back i will enforce the ban on the more experienced players, while allowing the rookies to verse them outside off tournaments. Dragonite your point on the players losing interest in the game is not what we experiencing here , its just people looking down on local tournaments and wanting to only play at Regs,trials, etc and then when they get smashed there they don't understand why.
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:08 am

Why do they look down on locals? Because it has no allure? I'm pretty sure you guys mention somewhere that your prizes were awesome..

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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:21 am

It doesn't matter. There is this feeling that prizes are unneccesary and so are locals. Here a look at the events unfolding...

Player A: Ay there's a tournament this sat.

Player B: We don't need to go to the tournament on Sat, we'll just wait for Trials to try out our super special secret awesome strategy, plus its just a Saturday tournament

Player A: But the prizes are 1 million tour guides

Player B: Who cares, we'll just order them if we need them

Player A: Ah good thinking

Player B: So we agree? sit at home and do nothing this Sat?

Player A: YAYS!
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:07 pm

Yudheer wrote:
It doesn't matter. There is this feeling that prizes are unneccesary and so are locals. Here a look at the events unfolding...

Player A: Ay there's a tournament this sat.

Player B: We don't need to go to the tournament on Sat, we'll just wait for Trials to try out our super special secret awesome strategy, plus its just a Saturday tournament

Player A: But the prizes are 1 million tour guides

Player B: Who cares, we'll just order them if we need them

Player A: Ah good thinking

Player B: So we agree? sit at home and do nothing this Sat?

Player A: YAYS!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...............lol
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:38 pm

You know what? I think your speeches are so gr8 that someone is bound to wake up and start selling more cards in ZA or else we're dooooommmed! What a Face What a Face What a Face

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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:47 pm

I don't think the people in Durban needs to get the non-participants to participate in their locals, in fact wouldn't it be better if the player base had more newer duelists?

Let me start from the top. I personally buy cards online as it works out to be cheaper than having to try pull the cards you're looking for, also the boosters expensive here!
I'm not sure why they're so expensive, but if it's true that if more people support their local card shops then the prices would become more reasonable, then the obvious solution would be to increase the player base. People do outgrow Yu-Gi-Oh! or lose interest in it so the best thing to do is to recruit new duelists and make them better. There would be a lot more new duelists and they can learn from each other a lot easier then by someone who is a lot better than they are and feel intimidated by them. There will always be a few veterans around that can help with the more complex mechanics of the game. New duelists also means more sales for the card shops as the newbies probably don't know too much about buying cards online yet.

So the definite MVP's are the new duelists.

Now to the main point of my reply, Game Marketing!
I see this as the foundation of the game, if it's done correctly then there should an increase in new players joining the tournaments hence increasing the player base and having a butterfly effect on the demand of cards which would increase the availability of those cards.
I don't know if SABC still broadcasts yu-gi-oh anime anymore but it was what got me into playing the card game. I've been in Cape Town for 3 years now and only knew about the weekly locals this year!!!
Creating awareness and letting people know that Yu-Gi-Oh! isn't dead is a must.

We could all help out by advertising local tournaments in school newsletters, community notice boards, GUMTREE (it's how I found out about my locals while looking for people selling their collections), facebook statuses, etc.

PS: For those of you who want the old player base to return so you can play competitively, try out you decks online vs pro's, www[dot]duelingnetwork[dot]com
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:05 pm

NIEL wrote:
You know what? I think your speeches are so gr8 that someone is bound to wake up and start selling more cards in ZA or else we're dooooommmed! What a Face What a Face What a Face

I don't like your sarcasm

_M_a_X_ wrote:
I don't think the people in Durban needs to get the non-participants to participate in their locals, in fact wouldn't it be better if the player base had more newer duelists?

Let me start from the top. I personally buy cards online as it works out to be cheaper than having to try pull the cards you're looking for, also the boosters expensive here!
I'm not sure why they're so expensive, but if it's true that if more people support their local card shops then the prices would become more reasonable, then the obvious solution would be to increase the player base. People do outgrow Yu-Gi-Oh! or lose interest in it so the best thing to do is to recruit new duelists and make them better. There would be a lot more new duelists and they can learn from each other a lot easier then by someone who is a lot better than they are and feel intimidated by them. There will always be a few veterans around that can help with the more complex mechanics of the game. New duelists also means more sales for the card shops as the newbies probably don't know too much about buying cards online yet.

So the definite MVP's are the new duelists.

Now to the main point of my reply, Game Marketing!
I see this as the foundation of the game, if it's done correctly then there should an increase in new players joining the tournaments hence increasing the player base and having a butterfly effect on the demand of cards which would increase the availability of those cards.
I don't know if SABC still broadcasts yu-gi-oh anime anymore but it was what got me into playing the card game. I've been in Cape Town for 3 years now and only knew about the weekly locals this year!!!
Creating awareness and letting people know that Yu-Gi-Oh! isn't dead is a must.

We could all help out by advertising local tournaments in school newsletters, community notice boards, GUMTREE (it's how I found out about my locals while looking for people selling their collections), facebook statuses, etc.

PS: For those of you who want the old player base to return so you can play competitively, try out you decks online vs pro's, www[dot]duelingnetwork[dot]com

Don't think you understand what the rant above meant
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Jascha
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PostSubject: Re: Development of the game   Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Blowfish are the ones that put yugioh on sabc. they sponcered it but decided with the 5d's series to only get season 1 and see what will happen. as we all know season 1 is a little gay until the end and its all up hill from there but blowfish arnt players at all. or even fans. so they have no idea of how to market there product and what there market wants. I think trevesh has done wanders but he still is a magic player and dosnt understand the core values of yugioh. We want this game to grow coz we want to have a bigger and funner time at torns every week. But blow fish are in it for money and need to at least take there business seriously.

yugioh is the no1 tcg in the world. with over $1,500,000,000 in revenue a year. it failing in sa is solely there fault. we can do all of the above and maybe succeed but at the end of it its blowfish that profits and they are only making profit of us as it stands as we drive the game forward.

The true answer should be at the top and we should get a second distributor in sa to compete. then maybe they will wake up. unfortunitly there isnt much we can do to stimulate that. its up to someone with the means to start distributing in sa.

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